Talk:Main Page - Revision history

BetaNotus: Reverted edits by DylanRules (talk) to last revision by Alleryn

2023-02-04T04:18:36Z

Reverted edits by DylanRules (talk) to last revision by Alleryn

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DylanRules: Replaced content with "this game sucks so bad i hate IT HATE IT HATE IT"

2023-02-04T03:54:56Z

Replaced content with "this game sucks so bad i hate IT HATE IT HATE IT"

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Alleryn: /* Loot tables? */ grammar fix

2021-08-10T19:59:55Z

Loot tables?: grammar fix

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:59, 10 August 2021
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	:Thank you Ransel; I hope i didn't rain on your parade too much. I do have one last idea i'd like to leave here for the future, which would be something like this:		:Thank you Ransel; I hope i didn't rain on your parade too much. I do have one last idea i'd like to leave here for the future, which would be something like this:
	:*Section called Old Loot Data where we could just cut and paste the data as it is now (for monster pages that don't have any zonal-differentiated info yet, which is most of them)		:*Section called Old Loot Data where we could just cut and paste the data as it is now (for monster pages that don't have any zonal-differentiated info yet, which is most of them)
	:*Followed by (empty) zone-by-zone sections like you had. This would give people ~~could~~ enter any data they have for each particular zone, which i understand was your goal (and i think a very positive one) to begin with.		:*Followed by (empty) zone-by-zone sections like you had. This would give people a place to enter any data they have for each particular zone, which i understand was your goal (and i think a very positive one) to begin with.
	:This would have the benefit of retaining all the old info while starting the transition to the new style for anyone who wants to enter data. I know this contradicts what i said above that i thought it would be preferable to gather the info outside of the wiki. That was motivated by wanting to avoid too much clutter/duplication of info on the pages, but hopefully this new(ish, i guess it's similar to some of the suggestions above) suggestion is an improvement, for whenever we decide to get the ball rolling on this. On my end, I'm fairly sure i can help with some of this, probably even automate the transition to this style if desired, at some point in the future, but right now i'm unable to devote the time unfortunately.		:This would have the benefit of retaining all the old info while starting the transition to the new style for anyone who wants to enter data. I know this contradicts what i said above that i thought it would be preferable to gather the info outside of the wiki. That was motivated by wanting to avoid too much clutter/duplication of info on the pages, but hopefully this new(ish, i guess it's similar to some of the suggestions above) suggestion is an improvement, for whenever we decide to get the ball rolling on this. On my end, I'm fairly sure i can help with some of this, probably even automate the transition to this style if desired, at some point in the future, but right now i'm unable to devote the time unfortunately.
	:In any case, thank you for taking the initiative on this matter. I think it is a worthy endeavor that would remove a lot of ambiguity from hunting for items.--[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:59, 10 August 2021 (EDT)		:In any case, thank you for taking the initiative on this matter. I think it is a worthy endeavor that would remove a lot of ambiguity from hunting for items.--[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:59, 10 August 2021 (EDT)

Alleryn: /* Loot tables? */

2021-08-10T19:59:05Z

Loot tables?

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:59, 10 August 2021
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	I'll continue to do some updates on the loot table format a little at a time and I might make a category soon that collects all the monsters who appear in multiple zones so it's easier to monitor and maintain those pages. Cheers! [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 12:06, 10 August 2021 (EDT)		I'll continue to do some updates on the loot table format a little at a time and I might make a category soon that collects all the monsters who appear in multiple zones so it's easier to monitor and maintain those pages. Cheers! [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 12:06, 10 August 2021 (EDT)

			:Thank you Ransel; I hope i didn't rain on your parade too much. I do have one last idea i'd like to leave here for the future, which would be something like this:
			:*Section called Old Loot Data where we could just cut and paste the data as it is now (for monster pages that don't have any zonal-differentiated info yet, which is most of them)
			:*Followed by (empty) zone-by-zone sections like you had. This would give people could enter any data they have for each particular zone, which i understand was your goal (and i think a very positive one) to begin with.
			:This would have the benefit of retaining all the old info while starting the transition to the new style for anyone who wants to enter data. I know this contradicts what i said above that i thought it would be preferable to gather the info outside of the wiki. That was motivated by wanting to avoid too much clutter/duplication of info on the pages, but hopefully this new(ish, i guess it's similar to some of the suggestions above) suggestion is an improvement, for whenever we decide to get the ball rolling on this. On my end, I'm fairly sure i can help with some of this, probably even automate the transition to this style if desired, at some point in the future, but right now i'm unable to devote the time unfortunately.
			:In any case, thank you for taking the initiative on this matter. I think it is a worthy endeavor that would remove a lot of ambiguity from hunting for items.--[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:59, 10 August 2021 (EDT)

Ransel: Talk.

2021-08-10T16:06:57Z

Talk.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:06, 10 August 2021
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	::::::::I guess my feeling is it would make more sense to collect the data first outside of the wiki and then once we know what we're dealing with then we could make the formatting change, but i suppose if you want to put the work in, it's ok by me. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:48, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		::::::::I guess my feeling is it would make more sense to collect the data first outside of the wiki and then once we know what we're dealing with then we could make the formatting change, but i suppose if you want to put the work in, it's ok by me. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:48, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
	::::::::I would prefer empty sections (maybe with the existing loot table as a guess where it might be correct, like for Venom Spider i guess the one we already have is probably the one for Anagoge?) to one loot table with presumably wrong info for many of the zones repeated over and over. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:52, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		::::::::I would prefer empty sections (maybe with the existing loot table as a guess where it might be correct, like for Venom Spider i guess the one we already have is probably the one for Anagoge?) to one loot table with presumably wrong info for many of the zones repeated over and over. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:52, 9 August 2021 (EDT)

			Verifying the loot tables using an additive method is likely easier than using a subtractive method. I agree that it's better to delete the data and add it back. I just wasn't sure about the communities feelings on the matter. This is why I'm taking an iterative approach to this task instead of trying to make everything perfect in one go. The drop rate percentage discussion is a big discussion and this talk page is already starting to get a bit long, and I'm not ready to implement anything at the moment. Most gaming communities I've been in have been more than happy to flood you with data/chat logs and I'm not concerned about the data collection aspect personally. I've seen various approaches to this over the years, but the ones that I've seen work the best allow the community to visit specific wiki pages and input their drop rate data directly into the wiki. This can happen via a script of some sort that reads the log file and updates the drop rates automatically or the script can strip the log files down to the needed information and give people numbers to input manually. There are many ways to go about it, but it's not a project I'm going to have time for in the short term, but I think its something that could be easily implemented with time.

			I'll continue to do some updates on the loot table format a little at a time and I might make a category soon that collects all the monsters who appear in multiple zones so it's easier to monitor and maintain those pages. Cheers! [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 12:06, 10 August 2021 (EDT)

Alleryn: /* Loot tables? */ nonsensical grammar repaired

2021-08-09T19:53:18Z

Loot tables?: nonsensical grammar repaired

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:53, 9 August 2021
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	::::::::Ah, okay. Have you found people who have volunteered to contribute chat logs/data? I guess i feel like if we don't know if we'll get around to data collection it might be better to leave things without multiple copies of the same info until data starts rolling in. Maybe just start separating out sections for monsters you've verified have differing loot per zone?		::::::::Ah, okay. Have you found people who have volunteered to contribute chat logs/data? I guess i feel like if we don't know if we'll get around to data collection it might be better to leave things without multiple copies of the same info until data starts rolling in. Maybe just start separating out sections for monsters you've verified have differing loot per zone?
	::::::::I guess my feeling is it would make more sense to collect the data first outside of the wiki and then once we know what we're dealing with then we could make the formatting change, but i suppose if you want to put the work in, it's ok by me. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:48, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		::::::::I guess my feeling is it would make more sense to collect the data first outside of the wiki and then once we know what we're dealing with then we could make the formatting change, but i suppose if you want to put the work in, it's ok by me. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:48, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
	::::::::I would prefer empty sections (maybe with the existing loot table as a guess where it might be correct, like for Venom Spider i guess ~~that's probably~~ the one we already have is the one for Anagoge?) to one loot table with presumably wrong info for many of the zones repeated over and over. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:52, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		::::::::I would prefer empty sections (maybe with the existing loot table as a guess where it might be correct, like for Venom Spider i guess the one we already have is probably the one for Anagoge?) to one loot table with presumably wrong info for many of the zones repeated over and over. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:52, 9 August 2021 (EDT)

Alleryn: /* Loot tables? */

2021-08-09T19:52:34Z

Loot tables?

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:52, 9 August 2021
Line 91:		Line 91:
	::::::::Ah, okay. Have you found people who have volunteered to contribute chat logs/data? I guess i feel like if we don't know if we'll get around to data collection it might be better to leave things without multiple copies of the same info until data starts rolling in. Maybe just start separating out sections for monsters you've verified have differing loot per zone?		::::::::Ah, okay. Have you found people who have volunteered to contribute chat logs/data? I guess i feel like if we don't know if we'll get around to data collection it might be better to leave things without multiple copies of the same info until data starts rolling in. Maybe just start separating out sections for monsters you've verified have differing loot per zone?
	::::::::I guess my feeling is it would make more sense to collect the data first outside of the wiki and then once we know what we're dealing with then we could make the formatting change, but i suppose if you want to put the work in, it's ok by me. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:48, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		::::::::I guess my feeling is it would make more sense to collect the data first outside of the wiki and then once we know what we're dealing with then we could make the formatting change, but i suppose if you want to put the work in, it's ok by me. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:48, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
			::::::::I would prefer empty sections (maybe with the existing loot table as a guess where it might be correct, like for Venom Spider i guess that's probably the one we already have is the one for Anagoge?) to one loot table with presumably wrong info for many of the zones repeated over and over. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:52, 9 August 2021 (EDT)

Alleryn at 19:48, 9 August 2021

2021-08-09T19:48:38Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:48, 9 August 2021
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	::::::I'm a little confused about the Venom Spider example. It looks like (in its present version: [http://wiki.projectgorgon.com/w/index.php?title=Venom_Spider&oldid=93718]) that all the versions of the spider are producing the same loot. Why are the items that all the spiders drop in the zone-specific sections? I was envisioning only items that one zone's spider drops but another zone's doesn't would go in that part. Could you explain your plan? --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 14:16, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		::::::I'm a little confused about the Venom Spider example. It looks like (in its present version: [http://wiki.projectgorgon.com/w/index.php?title=Venom_Spider&oldid=93718]) that all the versions of the spider are producing the same loot. Why are the items that all the spiders drop in the zone-specific sections? I was envisioning only items that one zone's spider drops but another zone's doesn't would go in that part. Could you explain your plan? --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 14:16, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
	:::::::Hi Alleryn, I haven't been able to go through and verify what specific equipment drops from each variant of the spiders, so I just copy/pasted it and can update as time goes by. For example, I'm 99% certain the Serbule Crypt variant drops Comfortable versions of the ancient gear at a higher percentage rate than the Anagoge variant. Having separated loot tables eventually allows for percentage rates to be added based on player log files. I could clear out the equipment sections if you'd prefer then go back and verify what equipment drops that way. With all the loot tables being blended together, the options are to leave them all the same for the specific variants of monsters and update / delete items as things are figured out. The other option is to erase it all and add back items as chat logs are examined. Or ideally, get that automatic system working at some point. Venom spiders are probably a bit closer in loot tables than some of the other monsters, but I had to start somewhere. [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 15:09, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		:::::::Hi Alleryn, I haven't been able to go through and verify what specific equipment drops from each variant of the spiders, so I just copy/pasted it and can update as time goes by. For example, I'm 99% certain the Serbule Crypt variant drops Comfortable versions of the ancient gear at a higher percentage rate than the Anagoge variant. Having separated loot tables eventually allows for percentage rates to be added based on player log files. I could clear out the equipment sections if you'd prefer then go back and verify what equipment drops that way. With all the loot tables being blended together, the options are to leave them all the same for the specific variants of monsters and update / delete items as things are figured out. The other option is to erase it all and add back items as chat logs are examined. Or ideally, get that automatic system working at some point. Venom spiders are probably a bit closer in loot tables than some of the other monsters, but I had to start somewhere. [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 15:09, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
			::::::::Ah, okay. Have you found people who have volunteered to contribute chat logs/data? I guess i feel like if we don't know if we'll get around to data collection it might be better to leave things without multiple copies of the same info until data starts rolling in. Maybe just start separating out sections for monsters you've verified have differing loot per zone?
			::::::::I guess my feeling is it would make more sense to collect the data first outside of the wiki and then once we know what we're dealing with then we could make the formatting change, but i suppose if you want to put the work in, it's ok by me. --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 15:48, 9 August 2021 (EDT)

Ransel: Talk.

2021-08-09T19:09:09Z

Talk.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:09, 9 August 2021
Line 88:		Line 88:
	:::::Cheers! [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 11:46, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		:::::Cheers! [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 11:46, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
	::::::I'm a little confused about the Venom Spider example. It looks like (in its present version: [http://wiki.projectgorgon.com/w/index.php?title=Venom_Spider&oldid=93718]) that all the versions of the spider are producing the same loot. Why are the items that all the spiders drop in the zone-specific sections? I was envisioning only items that one zone's spider drops but another zone's doesn't would go in that part. Could you explain your plan? --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 14:16, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		::::::I'm a little confused about the Venom Spider example. It looks like (in its present version: [http://wiki.projectgorgon.com/w/index.php?title=Venom_Spider&oldid=93718]) that all the versions of the spider are producing the same loot. Why are the items that all the spiders drop in the zone-specific sections? I was envisioning only items that one zone's spider drops but another zone's doesn't would go in that part. Could you explain your plan? --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 14:16, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
			:::::::Hi Alleryn, I haven't been able to go through and verify what specific equipment drops from each variant of the spiders, so I just copy/pasted it and can update as time goes by. For example, I'm 99% certain the Serbule Crypt variant drops Comfortable versions of the ancient gear at a higher percentage rate than the Anagoge variant. Having separated loot tables eventually allows for percentage rates to be added based on player log files. I could clear out the equipment sections if you'd prefer then go back and verify what equipment drops that way. With all the loot tables being blended together, the options are to leave them all the same for the specific variants of monsters and update / delete items as things are figured out. The other option is to erase it all and add back items as chat logs are examined. Or ideally, get that automatic system working at some point. Venom spiders are probably a bit closer in loot tables than some of the other monsters, but I had to start somewhere. [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 15:09, 9 August 2021 (EDT)

Alleryn at 18:16, 9 August 2021

2021-08-09T18:16:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:16, 9 August 2021
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	:::::Cheers! [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 11:46, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		:::::Cheers! [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 11:46, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
			::::::I'm a little confused about the Venom Spider example. It looks like (in its present version: [http://wiki.projectgorgon.com/w/index.php?title=Venom_Spider&oldid=93718]) that all the versions of the spider are producing the same loot. Why are the items that all the spiders drop in the zone-specific sections? I was envisioning only items that one zone's spider drops but another zone's doesn't would go in that part. Could you explain your plan? --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 14:16, 9 August 2021 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:09, 9 August 2021
Line 88:		Line 88:
	:::::Cheers! [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 11:46, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		:::::Cheers! [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 11:46, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
	::::::I'm a little confused about the Venom Spider example. It looks like (in its present version: [http://wiki.projectgorgon.com/w/index.php?title=Venom_Spider&oldid=93718]) that all the versions of the spider are producing the same loot. Why are the items that all the spiders drop in the zone-specific sections? I was envisioning only items that one zone's spider drops but another zone's doesn't would go in that part. Could you explain your plan? --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 14:16, 9 August 2021 (EDT)		::::::I'm a little confused about the Venom Spider example. It looks like (in its present version: [http://wiki.projectgorgon.com/w/index.php?title=Venom_Spider&oldid=93718]) that all the versions of the spider are producing the same loot. Why are the items that all the spiders drop in the zone-specific sections? I was envisioning only items that one zone's spider drops but another zone's doesn't would go in that part. Could you explain your plan? --[[User:Alleryn\|Alleryn]] ([[User talk:Alleryn\|talk]]) 14:16, 9 August 2021 (EDT)
			:::::::Hi Alleryn, I haven't been able to go through and verify what specific equipment drops from each variant of the spiders, so I just copy/pasted it and can update as time goes by. For example, I'm 99% certain the Serbule Crypt variant drops Comfortable versions of the ancient gear at a higher percentage rate than the Anagoge variant. Having separated loot tables eventually allows for percentage rates to be added based on player log files. I could clear out the equipment sections if you'd prefer then go back and verify what equipment drops that way. With all the loot tables being blended together, the options are to leave them all the same for the specific variants of monsters and update / delete items as things are figured out. The other option is to erase it all and add back items as chat logs are examined. Or ideally, get that automatic system working at some point. Venom spiders are probably a bit closer in loot tables than some of the other monsters, but I had to start somewhere. [[User:Ransel\|Ransel]] ([[User talk:Ransel\|talk]]) 15:09, 9 August 2021 (EDT)